Jason Tyler Burton Interview with the artist below.

This post follows two others on the song “Caleb Meyer,” by Gillian Welch and David Rawlings. Read the first here and the second here.  The artist interview below will refer back to these posts.

(Some of) The Rest of the Story

Shaleane added a comment to one of my first posts, on the old ballad “Fair Ellender,” that blew that ballad open for me in a surprising way. She wrote:

When I drift off listening to this song my thoughts are always with the Brown girl. She is the only one I ever “become.” Maybe it’s because she’s a mystery. At least in the versions of the song that I’ve heard – or paid attention to – she’s known only by the descriptions others make of her and by her murderous action; unlike Fair Ellender and Lord Thomas (and their parents), she has no voice. She has a house, she has some land, she’s about to have a husband who wants these things and another woman more than he wants her, and she has a knife. But she has no voice.

That comment led us ever since to keep an eye out for interpreting songs from new and different perspectives. Sometimes we can do that within the songs themselves. Other times, new songs come our way that engage in some kind of conversation with the older or more familiar ones. We’ve had the good fortune to encounter songs that also do this for some of our more familiar murder ballads. Marty Robbins developed the mesmerizing “Faleena (from El Paso)” as a sequel to his hit Western murder ballad “El Paso.” A number of artists gave voice to Laura Foster, the victim of the murder for which Tom Dula was convicted. 

Shaleane also pointed me in the direction of Nick Cave’s “Where the Wild Roses Grow,” as his artistic response to “Down in the Willow Garden.” While not exactly giving us the story from “Rose Connelly’s” perspective, it is in an interesting elaboration of the themes and motivations inside one of the more successful riverside sweetheart murder ballads.

Before wrapping up this series of posts exploring Gillian Welch and David Rawlings’s “Caleb Meyer,” I wanted to direct your attention to one such attempt to tell at least part of the rest of the story. We’ll hear part of the broader story of this song, this time from Caleb’s point of view. I was lucky enough to be able to reach the songwriter and performer on this one, so we’ll get his thoughts as well before we’re done.

Ghosts and Apples — “Caleb Meyer’s Ghost”

Jason Tyler Burton’s 2012 release The Mend includes “The Ghost of Caleb Meyer,” providing a back story for the Welch/Rawlings song. You’ll read below that even Burton finds that the story doesn’t bring us any surprises, really. For my money, though, some of the best murder ballads open up the capacity for empathy (which is different than compassion or pity) for more than one player in their tragic tales.

“Caleb Meyer’s Ghost,” by Jason Tyler Burton (Bandcamp) (Sorry, couldn’t get it to embed correctly). The lyrics are on the Bandcamp site.

Caleb Meyer’s Ghost from Jason Tyler Burton on Vimeo.

Q & A with JTB

I sent a few questions to Jason Tyler Burton via email, and he was kind enough to reply one night last week, after performing a gig in Utah.

MBM: How and when did “Caleb Meyer’s Ghost,” come to be? What can you tell me about that time and that process?

Dave Rawlings and Gillian Welch on Austin City Limits

JTB: Been a fan of the song since Gillian and David played it on Austin City Limits way back. I just loved it and played in several bands that would cover it, so I just never escaped it though I have never covered it myself. “Caleb Meyer’s Ghost” came to me in Kentucky, where there had been moonshine running and some alcohol in my family roots (luckily the similarities end there). It was a bit of a crazy whirlwind writing session, which is very unlike me. I had a few bars of melody going and went out to mow the lawn and came back in and wrote the whole thing down. I did very little tweaking to the words after that initial writing. It’s the only song I’ve ever written while doing yard work. 🙂

MBM: Why do you tell folks not to feel bad for Caleb?

JTB: Well, I had some good friends (the band Sugar Tree) in Kentucky. They are a trio of girls and they play “Caleb Meyer.” They played it as a sad ballad, not triumphant, but agonizing. I like your term “survivor’s ballad“. I used to play with them, and in fact, it is one of them (Deborah Payne) who is playing fiddle with me on the live video. I remember playing that song before they played Caleb Meyer and it kind of deflated them a bit…. like “oh man, we can’t hate the guy as much since Jason gave him this tragic back story”. So anyway, I don’t think we should feel bad for him because I believe that despite any kind of tragic upbringing we may have had, we are still responsible for our actions. It is not okay for Caleb to do what he does just because of this cliche and tragic tale I might have woven for him.

MBM: From an emotional/empathy perspective, were any parts of the song difficult to write? Are any difficult to sing?

JTB: Well, the verse about his sister committing suicide and him running off into the woods is surely difficult to sing. I have a lot of quiet, brooding songs and “Caleb Meyer’s Ghost” is one of my more up tempo tunes. As such, to sing such sorrowful things with a bit of a catch melody is a bit odd, I must admit. In many ways, since I am playing with the locations and words of Gillian’s song, and since it came so quickly, I often forget the song is my own.

MBM: When you perform a set, what do you like to play before and after this song?

JTB: Well, while this may be one of my saddest songs (the tune “Thicker Than Water” off my new album rivals it), I don’t bookend this song with any of my tunes more than others.

[Listen to “Thicker Than Water” on Bandcamp here.]

MBM: Have you gotten any strong reactions from listeners to the song? What kind of feedback do you get?

JTB: I’ve never gotten a negative reaction, though some folks have said they don’t listen to the original the same way anymore. And that’s quite interesting to me. Some folks have even asked me if Caleb Meyer is a historical figure that Gillian Welch and I both chose to write about. It’s cool that it has helped get this story, which was really Nellie Kane’s story, into folklore, which is a perfect place for both the original, and my back story.

Jason Tyler Burton

MBM: Did you interact with Gillian Welch and/or Dave Rawlings around the creation of the song? Have you heard anything from them?

JTB: When it came out, I sent them a link to it and said thanks for the inspiration. That’s as far as I figured it would go, and sure enough, I’ve not heard back. I like to think they’ve heard it or listened to it, but I don’t hold my breath.

MBM: Have you written any other murder ballads? Are there any other songs in your repertoire that go to a similar place?

JTB: I have one other murder ballad, that much like Caleb Meyer, it isn’t a straight up murder ballad. It’s called “Sally’s Song” and is about an abused woman who maybe is murdered, maybe just drowns herself in the river… but either way goes missing and the narrator thinks he knows the answer, because maybe he was in relationship with her, or at least wanted to be. There is no resolution, but it has the kind of spiritual overtones that give it a certain spooky feeling. I have not recorded it yet… but it still shows up in live sets on occasion.

MBM: What are some of your favorite murder ballads and why?

JTB: Well, “Caleb Meyer” is up there. There is so much going on in that song, and I love how you’ve been unpacking it for us. 

I grew up on Appalachian folk, so Doc Watson’s versions of Banks of the Ohio and Little Sadie are always the first to jump to mind. 

Later, when I had started writing songs, it was Uncle Tupelo’s version of “Lilli Schull” that made me think that if I was to be a folk singer, I better write myself a murder ballad at some point!

Wrapping up

That’s the last post I have in mind for our current series on “Caleb Meyer.” Many thanks to Jason Tyler Burton for his time and thoughts on his own work. We’ll be on the lookout for “Sally’s Song,” and we’ll be back in a little bit with something else to pique your interest, I hope. Thanks for listening and reading.